From the post-credit scene of Thunderbolts, it’s clear that there are now two Avengers teams in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). First is the Thunderbolts, a new Avengers team created by Valentina Allegra de Fontaine also known as Val, sponsored by the US government. Then there’s Captain America Sam Wilson’s Avengers team, formed after Captain America: Brave New World, where Sam faced off against Ross’s Red Hulk. These two teams will face the MCU’s greatest threat yet—the Incursion.
What does it mean to have two Avengers teams? Who are on these teams, and how do they fit into this multiversal catastrophe? Also, who are the people arriving on the Fantastic Four ship shown in the Thunderbolts post-credit scene? Let’s explore these questions in depth.
The Historical Significance of Divided Avengers
Firstly, let’s discuss the significance of having two Avengers teams. Remember, after Captain America: Civil War, the Avengers split into two groups as well, facing Thanos separately—one on Earth and one in space. In Marvel Comics, Avengers have split numerous times for various reasons. Even before the Secret Wars, Avengers divided into two groups: one secret group, the Illuminati (Doctor Strange, Hank Pym, Black Bolt, Iron Man, Reed Richards, and Namor), and another led by Captain America, seeking the Illuminati for disagreeing with their methods of handling incursions. Eventually, this led to the formation of a multiversal Avengers group focused on preventing universal destruction.
A similar situation is developing in the MCU. After Avengers: Endgame, questions arose about the Avengers’ whereabouts and successors. Val somewhat resolved this in Thunderbolts by introducing her team publicly as the New Avengers. Meanwhile, Sam Wilson is also building his Avengers team, with substantial details revealed from recent cast photos, and Sam officially holding the copyright to the Avengers name.
You might wonder why there’s division despite all heroes becoming Avengers by the end of Avengers: Endgame. The reason is that the Avengers name represents the ideals of Steve Rogers—selflessness and morality. The incoming problem in Marvel, the Incursion, tests these ideals significantly, involving two Earths colliding with each other, potentially causing billions of casualties.
The Moral Crossroads of Incursion
Captain America Sam Wilson likely wouldn’t destroy another Earth to save his own. However, the New Avengers might take such drastic actions comfortably. They’ve overcome internal demons, but it doesn’t mean they’ll change their approach overnight. Most notably, one character on their team is powerful enough to destroy a planet.
The Incursion threat places both teams at a crucial moral crossroads. When faced with the potential destruction of two universes, what sacrifices are justifiable? This philosophical question drives the central conflict between the two Avengers factions. The Incursion crisis isn’t just a physical threat; it’s an ethical dilemma that will force heroes to reveal their true priorities.
In Marvel Comics, Incursions led to impossible choices and fractured alliances. The MCU appears to be heading down a similar path, with different interpretations of heroism clashing when the stakes couldn’t be higher. This conflict goes beyond previous disagreements like the Sokovia Accords, touching on fundamental questions about sacrifice, utilitarianism, and whether the ends truly justify the means.
Sam Wilson’s Avengers: Champions of Rogers’ Legacy
Now, let’s talk about who’s on these teams. A recent photo released on Thunderbolts’ premiere day shows the cast of Avengers: Doomsday, including Robert Downey Jr. watching Thunderbolts. This photo clearly displays Sam Wilson’s Avengers team and hints at who might be on the Fantastic Four ship from the Thunderbolts post-credit scene.
Sam Wilson’s Avengers reportedly includes Ant-Man and Shang-Chi, visible in this cast photo, alongside Thor (Chris Hemsworth), Gambit (Channing Tatum), The Thing (Ebon Moss-Bachrach), Sue Storm (Vanessa Kirby), and M’Baku (Winston Duke), the current king of Wakanda. This means Sam’s team has Thor, a heavyweight, and support from powerful nations like Asgard and Wakanda. The surprising inclusion is Gambit, indicating multiversal Avengers are forming.
The presence of Fantastic Four members Sue Storm and The Thing is especially significant. As multiversal travelers who likely have firsthand experience with Incursions, they bring crucial knowledge about the coming threat. Their experience and understanding will be invaluable as the teams navigate the complexities of multiversal disasters.
The addition of Gambit, played by Channing Tatum, further suggests the formation of a truly multiversal Avengers team. Characters from different realities are joining forces, recognizing that the Incursion threat transcends universe boundaries. This expansion beyond the familiar MCU roster indicates how the scope of heroism is evolving to meet multiversal challenges.
Val’s New Avengers: Government-Sanctioned Team
The New Avengers, technically under American government control, include Black Widow Yelena Belova (leader), Winter Soldier, Red Guardian, US Agent, Ghost, and their heavyweight, Sentry—an unstable yet powerful hero. This team could soon add characters like Red Hulk, Abomination, and Zemo.
Val’s team operates under a clear chain of command with governmental oversight and resources. This official backing provides them with different assets but also places limitations on their autonomy. Unlike Sam’s international coalition, the New Avengers ultimately answer to political interests rather than purely moral considerations.
Sentry represents the team’s most significant asset—and potential liability. As an unstable yet immensely powerful individual, he brings capabilities that potentially rival Thor but with concerning volatility. Controlling such power will likely be a central challenge for Val’s team as they navigate the Incursion crisis.
What’s particularly interesting about Val’s roster is that many team members have already overcome personal demons and dark pasts. However, their pragmatic, ends-justify-the-means philosophy will likely remain intact, especially when facing existential threats like Incursions. Their backgrounds as operatives, assassins, and soldiers predispose them to making tough calls that Sam’s more idealistic team might resist.
The potential addition of characters like Red Hulk, Abomination, and Zemo would further emphasize their willingness to employ controversial assets when necessary. This approach creates perfect conditions for conflict with Sam Wilson’s more principled team, setting the stage for what could become Civil War II—a battle not just over methods but over fundamental questions of which Earth deserves to survive.
The Fantastic Four Connection
Sue Storm and The Thing from Fantastic Four appear aligned with Sam Wilson’s Avengers. The Fantastic Four ship seen in Thunderbolts might contain Sue Storm and The Thing, possibly having fled their planet for unknown reasons. Doctor Doom might also be involved. Reed Richards and Johnny Storm, meanwhile, seem destined for the X-Men universe, hinted by a recent slip-up from Alan Cumming regarding filming scenes with Pedro Pascal.
The split within the Fantastic Four is particularly significant. Traditionally inseparable in Marvel storytelling, their division across different factions suggests the severity of current multiversal events. Sue Storm and The Thing’s presence in Sam Wilson’s Avengers means they’ll inform the team about impending threats and how to handle them. The New Avengers, lacking such intel, might rush into aggressive action, potentially destroying another planet, especially under government orders.
The Fantastic Four ship’s appearance in the Thunderbolts post-credit scene raises numerous questions. Why have Sue and Ben fled their reality? What catastrophe prompted their departure? The answers likely connect directly to the Incursion threat facing the MCU. Their arrival serves as both a warning and a rallying cry, bringing crucial knowledge about multiversal disasters to Earth-616’s heroes.
Beyond the Avengers: Other Powerful Groups
Beyond these two teams, other powerful groups include the X-Men, the new Guardians of the Galaxy (now stronger), Star-Lord on Earth-616, White Vision on his personal journey, Young Avengers quietly assembling, and notably absent from discussions—The Eternals. The Thunderbolts’ clash with Sentry hints at the possible involvement of Eternals, notably Ikaris, who could match Sentry’s power.
The X-Men’s emergence adds another dimension to the multiversal crisis. With mutants finally making their presence known in the MCU, their unique perspective on persecution and survival makes them natural wild cards in any conflict involving multiversal ethics. The connections forming between Reed Richards, Johnny Storm, and the X-Men universe suggest complex alliances developing across realities.
The Guardians of the Galaxy have undergone significant changes, becoming stronger than before. Their cosmic perspective could prove invaluable, particularly with Star-Lord now back on Earth-616 and potentially able to bridge the gap between cosmic and Earthbound heroes. Their experience with universe-threatening events makes them seasoned veterans for the coming crisis.
The Young Avengers have been quietly assembling throughout Phase 4 and 5. Though not officially formed, these young heroes might represent a third approach—a generation unburdened by the ideological baggage of their predecessors. Their fresh perspective could offer solutions that the established teams cannot see.
Perhaps most intriguing is the conspicuous absence of the Eternals. Given Sentry’s prominent role with Val’s team, Ikaris could potentially match Sentry’s power, making the Eternals crucial players in any coming conflict. Their ancient perspective and cosmic connections could provide essential context for understanding the Incursion crisis.
The Coming Conflict: Civil War II?
Soon, a new cast list for Avengers: Doomsday will reveal more characters, including Doctor Strange and Spider-Man. Until then, we can only speculate about these Avengers teams. Whose side would you take? Do you think we’ll see a Civil War II after Secret Wars?
The division between Sam Wilson’s Avengers and Val’s New Avengers creates the perfect conditions for another hero-versus-hero conflict. Unlike Civil War, which centered on government oversight, this potential Civil War II would focus on a much more severe dilemma: Is it acceptable to destroy another Earth to save your own?
Sam’s team, guided by Captain America’s unwavering moral compass and informed by the Fantastic Four’s multiversal knowledge, would almost certainly reject this binary choice. They would exhaust every possible alternative, searching desperately for a solution that saves both Earths. With the scientific genius of Fantastic Four members and potentially even Doctor Doom on their side, they have the intellectual resources to potentially find another way.
Val’s New Avengers, conversely, operate under governmental authority that would likely prioritize Earth-616 above all others. Their pragmatic approach, combined with their past willingness to employ morally questionable methods, suggests they would execute the difficult but “necessary” decision to eliminate the other Earth if ordered to do so.
The information imbalance between the teams further complicates matters. Sue Storm and The Thing bring crucial knowledge about Incursions, giving Sam’s team insights that Val’s group lacks. Without understanding the full complexity of Incursions, Val’s team might default to the most direct solution, potentially triggering a conflict between the teams.
The Road to Secret Wars
The Incursion storyline is clearly leading toward Marvel’s adaptation of Secret Wars, potentially the most ambitious storyline in the MCU’s history. The division of Avengers into competing teams with different philosophical approaches creates the narrative tension necessary for such an epic confrontation.
In Marvel Comics, Secret Wars resulted from the collapse of the multiverse, with Doctor Doom creating a patchwork reality from salvaged pieces of destroyed universes. The MCU appears to be laying groundwork for a similar catastrophe, with the two Avengers teams representing different approaches to preventing—or perhaps causing—this multiversal endgame.
The involvement of Doctor Doom, traditionally a villain but apparently aligned with Sam’s team in the MCU, further blurs the moral lines. Doom’s presence suggests that conventional notions of good and evil will be thoroughly challenged as heroes face impossible choices about universal survival.
What makes this narrative direction particularly compelling is how it builds upon everything the MCU has established over the past 15+ years. The ideological seeds planted in Civil War, the multiversal concepts introduced in Loki and Doctor Strange 2, and the passing of mantles from original Avengers to their successors all converge in this new conflict with higher stakes than ever before.
As more casting announcements emerge for Avengers: Doomsday, the full scope of this multiversal conflict will become clearer. But the fundamental division is already established: two Avengers teams with different philosophies, resources, and information, headed toward an inevitable collision as devastating as the Incursion itself.
The question now becomes: Which side would you choose? Would you stand with Sam Wilson’s team, fighting to save everyone across all universes even at tremendous risk? Or would you align with Val’s New Avengers, making the painful but pragmatic choice to prioritize your own world’s survival? As we await the next chapters in this saga, this question will only grow more urgent—and the answers may redefine what it means to be a hero in the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
